For the last 13 seasons, Sandy Shinner has been championing new work as the Producing Artistic Director of Shattered Globe Theatre, an Equity company performing at a storefront scale. Hired to her position after more than twenty-five years as Associate Artistic Director at Victory Gardens, Shinner has overseen the revitalization of Shattered Globe, following its near-closure in 2010. In that time, she has pushed to expand and diversify the company’s ensemble, supported the early careers of young artists through the company’s Protége Program, and programmed world premieres and regional debuts by living playwrights, which have earned acclaim and respect from a tight-knit theatre community. Playwright Zach Barr sat down with Sandy on June 4th, to discuss her long career thus far, and what’s coming next. The interview has been edited for length and clarity. 

ZACH BARR: This coming Sunday will be the 79th annual Tony Awards. It will also mark the 25th anniversary of your attendance at the 55th Tony Awards, on behalf of Regional Theater Tony Award winner Victory Gardens. What do you remember about attending the ceremony?

SANDY SHINNER: First of all, the fact that we were even going to be the regional theater honoree was almost unbelievable to us. When the Tony Award Committee called Dennis Zaçek [founding Artistic Director of Victory Gardens], he didn't even believe them. I think [he] had to call them back. And then Dennis came down to tell us in rehearsal, which was a fabulous moment. We had a huge number of people at the Tonys, it couldn't have happened without all of those people. It took the all the Playwrights Ensemble, it took the staff, it took our incredibly generous donors. 

But the thing that changed for Victory Gardens was that… our mission of new play development had been under fire, basically. A couple of years before that, we had some disagreements on the Board, about what the focus should be. They wanted us in a bigger space, and they wanted us to do more plays that would, quote unquote, “sell.” We always wanted to stay small enough and intimate enough that we could do world premiere work. So, it was an enormous stamp of approval that we were on the right track. Poetic justice, as it were.

BARR: In the next few months, you'll be stepping down from your tenure as Producing Artistic Director at Shattered Globe. How did your transition into the position go in 2013? Has the onboarding process changed, during the time you’ve been in the role? 

SHINNER: There had never been a producing artistic director. I was the first one.. It was the ensemble that transitioned me into the new job. I’ve often said that, although I am certainly leading, I’m not the only voice in the room. It’s a collaborative effort. That’s how the theatre has been created, and that still exists, in terms of how its run. I certainly am hopeful that, for those thirteen years, I’ve made some stability in the organization. When I came in, we couldn’t even find the mailing list. We have reached a certain level of organizational ability that is much easier to transfer now.

BARR: Have there been any changes to how the company operates artistically that you've been able to see realized?

SHINNER: When they asked me if I was interested in coming on board, I said very clearly that my commitment, which had been formed at Victory Gardens, was to new plays and making sure that the theater company looked more like the city of Chicago. So the evolution of the ensemble, for instance, has been steady. Adding people into an ensemble-based theater is not like casting somebody for a single show. The idea that people have multiple skills and want to share what they know, that they believe that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and that we all work towards the same goals––that's not for everybody. But we have a wonderful ensemble and it's diverse, generationally and racially. I'm really proud of the fact that they accepted that kind of a challenge when I came in, and that we continue to grow and do it authentically. That was always the goal.

BARR: While you're stepping away from leadership, you’ll remain a Shattered Globe Ensemble member. What opportunities do you hope that you'll have as a regular ensemble member, that you didn't have as Artistic Director?

SHINNER: That’s really tricky! I don’t absolutely know. You have to be in an ensemble because you believe in the group, and you sometimes put your personal needs to the side because there's something more important at that particular moment. I directed in the first season that I was AD, and I thought it would probably be a good idea if I went every other season.

When we got to the pandemic and everybody was rethinking how we had approached things, I realized that, you know, I have had a lot of opportunity, and now I'm in a leadership role where I can give that opportunity to other people. And there were so many wonderful people who were ready to direct that I was happy to say, “great, take this and run with it, and I'll be here to support you.” I have directed other places in Chicago, and maybe there'll be an opportunity to do some readings and work with some playwrights. I don't know what that's gonna look like, but I'm happy to be open to the possibilities. 

BARR: There's been a lot of hand-wringing post-pandemic about low theater attendance, with a lot of companies programming what could be called “safe” picks. Do you feel that shift in audience interest? How do you balance ambitious new work programming with concerns about audience retention?

SHINNER: We have been really lucky. We had incredible audiences for London Road, incredible audiences for Lobby Hero. And, I mean––we didn't pick Lobby Hero because we thought it was gonna be off the charts. We picked Lobby Hero because it was something that Nate [Santana] brought to the table, and he was passionate about it.

And then, because Nate is a great artist and he found and cast Elliot Esquivel, who really kind of changed the idea of who that character was, people wanted to see it.

The audience is a little fickle, I think, after the pandemic. The idea that somebody's gonna commit to see all three of your shows is less of a reality. Sometimes the reviews help, but I think it's about where people are getting their information now, and how much of that's changed in terms of being able to reach people and scoop them in to be excited about a show.

For Eelpout!, for instance, who would have thought that it was going to be as incredibly well received as it was, you know? We're always hopeful, but…you put it out there and, if it means something to you and everybody is passionate, then you just hope that other people catch that passion. So we've been lucky to be able to do that. 

BARR: Victory Gardens has changed significantly since you left, closing in 2022 after the majority of its staff were fired or quit. But the company has announced their intention to return to operation, with Teatro Vista co-founder and Chad Deity director Edward Torres as Interim Artistic Director. What future would you like to see for that organization?

SHINNER: Well, you know, I've talked to Eddie Torres about this. Eddie's very passionate about trying to make this happen. I think that having a theater the size of Victory Gardens continue with the mission of new plays and new play development is huge in the community. We built a place that did great work with wonderful writers, and we were able to do five plays a year, many of them new plays. It's such an important mission to be held by a theater with status, to kind of elevate the idea of new plays, and the importance that hearing what living playwrights have to say about our world. And I think that's what Eddie is trying to do.

BARR: We've seen a lot of incubators for new plays shutter in the last decade: Humana Festival, Lark Play Development Center, and IGNITION Festival at Victory Gardens, which you founded in 2010. What are the benefits of development series like these? 

SHINNER: The thing about all of those programs is that that they actually took the thing from idea to production. You can only have workshops and readings for so long before you just need more information, and the only information you get is from having the show produced.

So the fact that those big, incredibly important––and I include IGNITION in that because, my goodness gracious, we brought The Elaborate Entrance of Chad Deity and We are Proud to Present a Presentation…, and Edith Can Shoot Things and Hit Them. So, I feel like that's a big loss, right? Shattered Globe, we did our series which was slightly the stepchild of IGNITION, called the Global Playwright Series. We did produce Jasmine Sharma's Radial Gradient, and we're still in contact with the other playwrights, and hope to produce all of them in that cohort eventually. 

BARR: I found your 2016 interview with Ed Tracy, in which you pointed out that New York does not refer to itself as having a theater “community” in the same way that Chicago does.

SHINNER: That's right. All the people that have come in from New York––famous actors that I've worked with, and other people who have come in to lead theaters––are always surprised at Chicago. That sense of how committed we are to the work, that we want to be inclusive and we want to forge our artistic lives here. There are so many people in Chicago who could have chosen New York and didn't, because of what we've got here.

BARR: There's been some testing of the trust holding that community together, in the last couple of years. Certain companies have struggled to navigate scandals and dwindling community support, not to mention the ongoing anger around the non-Equity Jeffs in March. Do you still feel that Chicago’s theater scene is a community right now?

SHINNER: You know, I feel that. There always have been risks. There've been problems. The non-equity Jeffs is not something new. Things come along, exacerbated by our political life, or the life outside the art. And sometimes things get shaken up for a little bit, but they've always come back together. Sometimes it just takes time. I can only really speak myself on that. I hope other people feel the same way, but… I don't know.

BARR: The cultural idea of “Chicago style” storefront theater is still somewhat rooted in the 70s and 80s––your Steppenwolfs, your ensemble-based companies, your character-driven plays. The current crop of storefronts continue to challenge the definition of what the style is. What would you classify as hallmarks of today's “Chicago style,” if it can be said to have one?

SHINNER: Other people have heard me say this before, having been here for a really long time. We all spent a lot of time building a community in Chicago. Getting to know each other, feeling like the rising tide floats all boats. It was not competitive. We were here to make Chicago theater a place where people could live, and feel like they had an artistic life in the city. The larger theaters supporting the smaller theaters––and the smaller theaters supporting the larger theaters, by lifting up great new artists that we can take a chance on, and their careers can grow because of it.

I hope that people realize that the history of how Chicago's built, which is not like any other city, is that we all collaborated––big, small, medium-sized––different points of view in terms of what art we were making. We were all important to the city, and it took all of us to create the community. I hope that that particular idea still continues for a long time, because it's made Chicago what it is.